Curse

Zubey · Oct 04, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I like 6on6. Fills a niche at that number of players and it's easier to put together a team.

It'll develop it's own shifting metagame. One weekend wasn't enough for people to fully explore the format.

TimTimTimma · Oct 04, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by McUH

6v6 HA is bad for several reasons.

1. game balance

This is most important IMO. I feel skills in GW are balanced for 8v8 play (damage wise and heal-wise etc). Making in 6v6 will make HA unbalanced cookie-cutter build arena.

Also imporatnt parts of metagame will be dropped out. Just to name few:

- spike (it is still possible to do spike in 6 players, but you will completely lose backline).
- balanced (anyone speaking about creativity ? balanced temas of many sorts are where creativity comes into play most I think, but they will become less viable now, because the main advantage of balanced - reduced effectivity at the cost of ability to face any situation, will be greatly reduced. There will be not enough place to take counters too all kind of situations in sufficient number)

Gimmick builds will become much more powerful because of inability to pack anough versatility into balanced teams, who if played well, can usually face most if not all cookie-cutter builds out there right now.

Game is more balanced in HA with 6v6 because there is no "forever holding build" like hmm, I dunno blood spike?
Spikes are still possible, just not the gay kind like blood spike
The lower number of skills in the build requires players to actually PLAY the game with skills, like movement, positioning, etc. THIS is where the true skill lies, anyone can time shock, anyone can countdown 3, 2, 1. Anyone can hit a res sig as soon as someone dies. But not everyone can have good battle field observation, good placement, or kiting. THIS is the skill anet is promoting here and I for one love it. Its where the REAL skill comes in, instead of just click execute this skill "ZOMG I INTERUPTED RoF WITH SHOCK I ROXORZ", NOT that hard.

Quote:

2. griefing possible and longer matches

Yes. You see right. All you people who believe it will bring faster matches are probably wrong (except for timed maps where it depends on timer). Reason is offense will be reduced. And I can still take 3 monk backline, now I want to see you fight against it with your reduced offense, when it is good for keeping 8-man team alive for a good amout time. The match will take forever if both teams are skilled.
And it will be possible to make griefing builds now. Right now it does not matter if you take some 8 monks or something designed to somehow get through Zaishen and then just our-bore opponent. Will not work because 8-man team has enough offense to crack weak point and land some minispike or soemthing, also spikes would make short work of such team in 8v8, in 6v6 they will lack power for it (unless they run without backline at all making them complete gimmick as well).

Last I checked, 2 monks hold up 6 players, so it shouldn't be hard to hold up 4. This claim has no root, and is completely 100% random hate

Quote:

3. lack of high level PvP arenas

There are only 2 high level PvP arenas atm. GvG and HA. For more casual players, there are lot of more possibilities: RA, TA, Alliance battles, those PvP arenas in Cantha (not sure how they are called, Jade Quary, Fort Aspenwood or something?). 6v6 HA will stop this arena from being good for high-level competetive players for reasons described earlier. That will leave us with only 1 really competetive PvP and that is GvG. Which is hard to organise without guild or when not enough guildies are online. For these times (being without guild or when not many people in guild are online) the HA was perfect opportunity to do with friends and even taking 1-2 players from PuG (this will prob. no longer happen, since I have no prob. at all to make 6-friends team, that is if I bother to play that kind of HA anymore).

IMO, if they wanted some mid-step 6v6 arena, they should have made TA as 6v6. We would have then more diverse options:
4v4 random - RA
4 player team - AB (even though there is 3v3 such teams)
6 player team - TA
8 player team - HA
8 player guild team - GvG

That would be much better I think than 6v6 HA. Still I dont think it is good to change TA into 6v6, I only say it would be lesser evil than change HA to 6v6 if they can't make new 6v6 arena but have to change old one.

You are suggesting high level play is based on the number of players involded. WRONG, high level play is, just that. High level of play. TA can be considered high level of play because there ARE good guilds/teams in there and they play at a respectable level. Anything involving TEAMS BEING FORMED involves higher level of play because there is strategy being implimented and attempted at being executed.

Quote:

4. Fame and Ranks

Yes old debate. I know how alomost everyone deems them worthless. For myself it does not mean that much either (mind you I am not unranked). Though very high ranks (R11+ maybe ?) still mean something and the lower ranks at least mean you have been there and won some.
But with changing HA to 6v6 the whole concepts changes drasticaly, Fame would no longer represent experience from winning this type of matches (though can still mean to some degree you know maps).
If HA is changing to 6v6, either Fame should be reset to 0, or locked where it is and new ranking system being put into place.

Fame isnt about how many matches you've won, or played. It is about your experience, your ability to play competitively. This also involves being able to adapt to change. My guild adapted EXTREMELY well to the change, and we all farmed ATLEAST 1200 fame and some of us farmed over 2100. Without the double fame that is still 600 and 1050 in 5 days. Not alot of people were able to accomplish this over the weekend.

Quote:

For myself, I planned to buy Nightfal right from the start just for the new PvP skills (did not even finish Cantha yet, that PvE is simply to boring for me, I have it for PvP skills alone as well), and I was already preparing 8v8 builds based on Nightfall skills to try out in HA (and already did some during preview). Now I will prob. wait to see if they make HA really 6v6. If they do I don't know, either I find some good GvG guild (the one I am in atm we are just getting used together but they are HA-ers mostly, I did some GvG in previous guilds but they were disbanded for different reasons). Or if I find none, I will prob. let GW go. It was great game, but PvP is only thing I am really interested in GW now and from only 2 real PvP arenas they would destroy 1 of them, the easier accesible one to say.

Mc

Nice knowing ya.

Blackhawk · Oct 04, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLuiP

I've read some post and I agree with Xiedon. This is a load of bullcrap. It's like anet is bowing under to pressure from PvE people. Like the thing with "PvE titles/ranks"

You're joking, if A-net bowed under pressure to PvEr's, then we'd see a reversal of the nerfs which supposedly "balance" PvP but have an adverse effect on the PvE environment at the same time.

And if you think this is going to get PvE people into PvP I think they've got it wrong as the only reason people found 6v6 popular before was so they could get into a team, farm fame and get an emote during the double fame weekend.

Priest Of Sin · Oct 04, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Maybe i'll go run Dual Smite and get that rank 3 now that HA= 6v6. Personally, I think that if you just ran a 6 monk out-last team, you'd dominate HoH.

Alleji · Oct 04, 2006, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trixz

Quite possibly the worst suggestion ever?

Why not? People "loved" 6v6 HA. Let's try 6v6 GvG.

Marz08 · Oct 04, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Ok So They are changing HA.Explain This Then.On the Factions Booklet it shows a Gladiators Isle East Of Team Arenas.I dont know one person too have actually been there!.

Btw 6v6 is a good idea.Less hassle and new builds will come.

sindex · Oct 04, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I just hope when they mean “changes to the maps”, they don’t cut back on the size and lower the detail on the maps.

Cassandra · Oct 04, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Of course the "PvP pro l33t players" angrily complaining about 6vs6 HA are mainly IWAYers and BloodSpikers, who had their toy broken.

I do a lot of PvP, 600.000+ balth from Gvg and HA, and I warmly welcome this change.

xulidan · Oct 04, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

This is great.
Now our 8-man HA team is gonna play rock-paper-scissors for the first couple of minutes at Guild Hall before venturing into 6 vs 6 "arena" or used-to-called-HA in order to decide which 6 gets to play!!!!!!

...This is the part where people leave....

Shanaeri Rynale · Oct 04, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

It would have been far better to revamp the existing maps and keep HA at 8v8, and then introduce a 6V6 area where fame is earned at 1/2 the rate.

Add to the gameplay options, don't take them away.

so then you'd have
Random 4v4
TA 4v4
HA lite 6v6
HA 8v8
GvG 8V8
AB 12v12

in NF hero's vs Hero's 4v4

That looks a nicely rounded set of options for people to play.

Yu Liang · Oct 04, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Stop complaining and stop being so conservative. A change is always nice. Variety is the spice of life and all that. Only the "Uber exped" Pvper's are annoyed, and that's because they can ALWAYS get groups. I'm glad this way I won't have to stand in HA for an hour shouting "R3+ Group LF members w/Vent & TS!" and only getting the response "LAWL U R ONLI R4 I AM R9 NUBZ" because the groups will be SMALLER - meaning if you get 5 friends now, you won't have to sit around in HA waiting forever for 3 fame. Besides, instead of sitting and complaining about all the groups being gimmick builds, with a lower party size, you can fill up a group quicker and start BEATING these gimmick builds. Instead of everyone sat around this thread complaining about only IWAY being run, perhaps you should set up groups together and beat IWAY.

supaet · Oct 04, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

How come you people don't understand. Stop going back and forth. Those who said 6v6 is good, those who said 8v8 is good. They both have reason to be good. But what Anet doing is one or the other. Can you guys all unite and push them to offer both modes so we can CHOOSE?

Rinobmxteen · Oct 04, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

coming from a person that has played gw since beta i feel that this is a BIG mistake that anet is doing. the reason i feel this way is because all anet is doing my making halls or ha or w/e you call it 6v6 is because they want all of the guilds/players that win halls a lot to have a more difficult time holding. also they want the "noobs" to have a chance at winning, but the thing is anet everyone was a noob at one time. they need to learn how to play just like everyone else. also 6v6 is going to be vim+dual smite+ thumpers and thats about it. I feel that my making ha 6v6 it will cause the "old school" tombs players to begin gvging because they will be sick of the same old builds over and over again which will even become worse then it is now. and btw this is to the person at that last 6v6 that said ta players will become the next halls champions. that will not happen just as it did not happen during the double fame weekend they are to different things and the monk styles are also too different

YesNo · Oct 04, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Of course the unskilled, unranked players love 6v6, but for the experienced players this change brings a closing of guildwars. The only reason people 'loved' the 6v6 weekend was double fame. I made 1300 fame in 2 days over that weekend, which would be 650 in 2 days nondouble fame. Everyone thinks this will be 'fun', how is facing ViM every other match 'fun'? With 8v8 there is more coordination required. Yes all you noobs are jumping for joy that you might be able to make it past Burial Mounds now, but for us older players who have sat through Anet's constant mutilation of tombs this is an outrage. They take away our rifts, then they kick us from the tomb of primeval kings, take away our unworthies, change halls to 4 minute timers, and now change the party size? This game isn't even recognizable anymore.

Yagyu_Jyubei · Oct 04, 2006, 04:24 PM // 16:24

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the changes would be something like 4 Teams divided into 2 groups 12vs12 or something like that .... anyway I'm curious what has Anet for us let's hope for the best.

Jetdoc · Oct 04, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Anyone else think that this is a preface to having a new 8v8 PvP contest in Nightfall?

Mia R · Oct 04, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

What would GvG guilds think if Anet suddenly made GvG 6 v 6?

They might feel a bit upset like the alot of the HA guilds do at the moment!

Ahh I am surrounded by depressed players atm

...thankyou ANet !

Wildkat · Oct 04, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

This may be a bad financial move as well.Why would people buy more character slots when there are less options to play in HA?Was also looking forward to playing a support build that is slightly flexable on skills.Some of the new rit and assasin Nightfall skills looked like they would fit in nicely in 8 v 8 HA.Not any longer......It's hard enough to be flexable in 8v8.Try running a mod in 6v6 and you will be kicked from the group faster than a blood spike's spike.The arguement came up about so many iway,bloodspike,vim,exc in tombs.Big deal,there will always be a popular build and counters to it.Will sadly be looking for another game to play once this goes into effect as the 8 v 8 gvg doesn't have as much variety as 8 v 8 HA and gvg is a whole different atmosphere.Played during the 6 v 6 weekend and saw more copies of the same build than ever before.It was also harder to make a counter to the build because there was less room to work with skillwise and support wise.As far as finding a group also had more trouble as there was no need for some of the classes that I like to play.Oh well ,more free character slots ....

Fantus · Oct 04, 2006, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubey

One weekend wasn't enough for people to fully explore the format.

That's of course right. People will need at least 2 weekends to fully explore all possible build variations offered by 6x6..

(End Sarcasm)

Yu Liang · Oct 04, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I think that I can see the idea of making a separate 6v6 arena and a separate 8v8 arena. Who knows? Perhaps this is "tentacles in the battle isles" and a ploy of "Buy Nightfall or you won't get 8v8 back". I think the change is good, but being allowed both choices is a good idea. That way the less experienced players could build up their skills in 6v6, ready for 8v8.